17 Before Abraham was, I Am (John 8:48-59)

Krisan Marotta: Welcome to the Wednesday in the Word podcast. I'm Krisan Marotta, and this is my podcast about what the Bible means and how we know. I'm so glad you joined us today. Today is the 17th talk in my series on the Gospel of John, and we will be studying John chapter 8, verses 48 through 59. Today is going to be a little different from the rest of the series. If you've been with me from the beginning, you know that my goal in this series has been to give the big picture of what's going on in John's Gospel, and I have tried to stay focused on the major themes in the book. Not today, I'm going to do something different. Perhaps you notice that Jesus makes a number of rather intriguing statements in this gospel about who he is and his relationship with God. As we've gone through this gospel, I have tiptoed over most of those statements without much comment, because talking about them can wade into some technical and complicated waters. Well, in today's section, we hit John 8.58, where Jesus said, Before Abraham was, I am. I've decided to stop and talk about it. Fair warning, we are going into the interpretive weeds today. Our discussion will involve a lot of interpretive detail. We're going to talk about the original Hebrew, the Old Testament, the Greek translation of the Old Testament, and all kinds of exciting stuff in order to figure out this passage. While it is the sort of thing that I love to do in this podcast, it's also the sort of thing that I said I would not do in this season of the podcast. But if I don't stop and talk about this topic now, I don't know when I'll ever do it. So if this doesn't interest you, feel free to skip ahead to the next podcast. Here's the problem verse. It's John 8.58. Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am. The big question we're going to tackle is what does Jesus mean when he says this? The traditional interpretation of this verse understands Jesus to be making two claims. He is claiming that he existed before Abraham, and second, he is identifying himself as God. The phrase I am is the name of God from the Old Testament, and he is claiming that name for himself here. Well, the more I study this section, the more I think it's quite possible that is not what's going on in this verse. Now, just to be clear, I have no hidden agenda. I am not interested in undermining the divinity of Jesus. I am not trying to refute the Orthodox view of the Trinity or anything like that. None of that is my goal. My goal is always to understand the verse in the context in which it was written. I am merely suggesting that in this context, it seems more likely to me that Jesus intends to highlight his authority and importance as the Messiah, and he does not mean to suggest one way or the other whether he existed before Abraham. Now, in order to sort that issue out and understand what he's doing here, we need to do two things today. First, we need to go into some interpretive detail about exactly what the passage says. And second, we need to talk about why it matters. Why does it matter how you interpret this and why am I even bringing it up? What's at stake in how you interpret this verse? You Bible study geeks out there are going to love this talk, but for many of you, I expect this will not be the most exciting podcast you've ever listened to. You might want to think of it as taking your medicine. Sometimes you just need to understand a little bit of technical stuff. Let's start in verse 48, where we left off last week. Earlier in the chapter, Jesus said that he's the light of the world. The Pharisees challenged him, saying his claim is worthless because he's the only person testifying about himself. Jesus responded that his testimony is true, and besides, he's not the only one testifying that he's the Messiah. God the Father also testifies that Jesus is the Messiah through the miracles Jesus performs. And soon they would see the greatest sign of all, the resurrection. Then Jesus tells those who believe that they must keep on believing to be his disciples, and if they do persist in belief, they will be free, meaning free from sin. But the Jews listening to him balk at these words, saying, Wait a minute, we're children of Abraham, we are already free, we are not slaves. And much of what's in this passage then finishes that last section that we talked about in the last podcast. The Jews say, God is our father because we're children of Abraham, and then Jesus asks, Well, are you really like your father? No, actually, there's someone else you're like. And he points to two aspects of their behavior that indicate they have a different father. First, they don't believe the message, and second, they're trying to kill the messenger. Here is a truth speaker from God and they hate him. Jesus is telling them a true message from God and they reject it and seek to have him arrested and executed instead. And Jesus says, Is that like Abraham? No. Abraham believed the messages that came to him from God. When God spoke directly to him, Abraham believed, even when the promises were humanly impossible to keep. When angelic messengers showed up, Abraham believed them. He didn't try to kill them. He showed them hospitality. When he met the priest of God, Melchizedek, Abraham gave him gifts. So Abraham did not reject the truth from God, and he never tried to kill the messengers. Unbelief and murder do not characterize the children of God, but they do characterize someone else. Lies and murder are the chief characteristics of the devil. He lied to Adam and Eve, he inspired Cain to murder his brother. The whole line inspired by Satan is characterized by hatred and deception. The two great commandments are to love God and love your neighbor, but the work of the devil in this world has been to teach us to reject God and hate our neighbors even to the point of killing them. So Jesus challenges them. He says, Look at your response to me. Who would respond like that to me, Abraham or the devil? Abraham would welcome me, the devil would seek to kill me, and you guys are acting a lot more like the devil. And that's where we pick up the discussion. I'm going to read John eight, forty eight through fifty nine. Then the Jews answered him, Are we not right in saying that you are a Samaritan and have a demon? Jesus answered, I do not have a demon, but I honor my father, and you dishonor me. Yet I do not seek my own glory. There is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. Truly, truly I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death. The Jews said to him, Now we know you have a demon. Abraham died, as did the prophets, yet you say, if anyone keeps my word he will never taste death. Are you greater than our father Abraham who died? And the prophets died. Who do you make yourself out to be? Jesus answered, If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say he is our God. But you have not known him, I know him. If I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him, and I keep his word. Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day, he saw it and was glad. So the Jews said to him, You're not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham? Jesus said to them, Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was, I am. So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple. As this discussion continues, there's this talk about Jesus' relationship to Abraham. It starts with this cryptic comment that Jesus makes, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death. Now the Pharisees believed in a bodily resurrection after death, but the Sadducees did not. They did not think there was a physical bodily resurrection. Theologically, the Pharisees would agree with Jesus that there is a resurrection of the dead coming, but they didn't recognize that Jesus is talking about resurrection here. Jesus is being cryptic in this section, and they seem to continually be a step behind him. They think he's saying that his followers were never physically dying. But if we compare this with something else Jesus says later in John, when he's talking to Martha after the death of her brother Lazarus, we can see that he is most likely talking about resurrection from the dead as an eternal life. This is John 11, 25 and 26. Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection and the life, whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this? So in that little section, it's clear, he makes explicitly clear that his followers may physically die, but because they follow Jesus, they will be raised again to eternal life where they will never die again. That's the total picture behind the statement he makes here in chapter eight, but he's much more cryptic. But he's saying the same point, the ones who remain in my word will never see eternal death. Now the Pharisees would have agreed with the resurrection part, but they would find Jesus' claim that he himself is the source of resurrection outrageous. They would be outraged that he says resurrection depends on whether you believe and keep believing his word. But in this passage, they don't even seem to understand that he's talking about resurrection. They just say, you know, this is weird. How can you say your followers are never going to die? Who is the most important person in our history? It's Abraham, and we are all children of Abraham. But even Abraham never made such a bold and outrageous claim. We know that Abraham died. We know the prophets died. We're children of Abraham, we've listened to the prophets. They never said you wouldn't die if you listened to them. And they all died. Our fathers died, we're gonna die. So who do you think you are to say that if we listen to you, we aren't gonna die? In response, Jesus again makes a claim that he's made before. He is not glorifying himself. His testimony about himself is true, but he's not the only one making that claim. God is standing with him, testifying that he, Jesus, is who he claims to be. Then he makes another cryptic statement, this is 856. Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad. Okay, what does it mean that Abraham would see Jesus' day? As I understand it, the day of Christ is the day when God fully reveals Jesus as the Messiah, and every knee bows and every tongue confesses Jesus Christ is Lord. Usually it refers to the time when Jesus returns and establishes his kingdom. It is that day ahead of us when Christ returns, raises his people from the dead, and everyone in creation recognizes Jesus as Lord. And it would make some sense for Jesus to be talking about that day here because he was just saying those who keep his word will escape death. The day that Jesus will ultimately fulfill that promise is on his day, the day he returns and raises his people to eternal life. So that makes a certain amount of sense. Now, some scholars think by my day Jesus is referring to his first coming, the now, as he is talking to these Pharisees. So they think he means the time period right then when he came to offer his life for his people. But at this point, given the way this phrase is typically used in the Gospels, I think it makes more sense to see his day as being the day coming when he will fully keep the promises as God's Messiah. Okay, so far so good. But the problem is, what does that have to do with Abraham? Abraham lived quite a long time ago, and how is it that Abraham could see a day that is still in our future? Whether you think the day of Christ refers to his first coming or his second coming, either way, the day of Christ did not happen in a time when Abraham could see it. It did not happen in Abraham's lifetime. So in what sense did Abraham see it? I think Jesus is referring to the promises, the blessings that God gave Abraham. God told Abraham that he was going to bless all the nations of the earth through his descendants, and the New Testament makes it clear that those promises to Abraham are fulfilled in Jesus Christ. It is true Abraham died, but he was eagerly waiting for God to fulfill his promises, and those promises are fulfilled in Jesus. So Jesus is the one that he's waiting for, even if he never heard the name. Now the tricky question is, in what sense did Abraham see the day of Christ? I must admit, I don't fully understand this phrase. I'm still trying to figure it out. I'm going to give you my best guess for my study so far, but I admit I have more to learn and I could change my mind. I think Jesus means that Abraham saw his day in the sense that he understood it was coming and he believed he was coming and he rejoiced. Perhaps God explained part of the plan to Abraham, or he explained the Messiah's role in it. I think Abraham understood enough of the plan to know that a Savior was coming, a Messiah was coming who would fulfill the promises God made to him, and he rejoiced in that answer. Now again, I read a lot of books that didn't offer many satisfying answers to this question, but I couldn't come up with anything better. So I have to say, I don't know for sure what he means, but it seems that Jesus is not suggesting that his day happened before, back in Abraham's time. Rather, he's suggesting the promises that Abraham was looking forward to are fulfilled in him. And many scholars do agree on that point. They agree that Jesus will fulfill what Abraham was looking for, and in that sense, Abraham saw Jesus' day. And if that's is what's going on, it is very relevant to the complaint that the Jews just made. They're saying, What are you talking about? Abraham died. And in essence, Jesus answers, Yes, he died, but he was looking forward to the fulfillment of the blessing that God was going to give him through me. Abraham knew that he didn't have that yet. He was looking forward to the day when God would keep his promises, and he understood those promises were not going to be fulfilled in his lifetime. He also understood that I, Jesus, am the one who will bring these blessings about. Ultimately, Abraham is not going to stay dead. He is going to find life, just as everyone else who follows Jesus will find life through Jesus, the Messiah. So I think he's saying Abraham understood at least that part of the plan, and in that sense, he saw my day and he rejoiced. Now, I think that's what he's getting at. A lot of scholars agree with that. A lot of them have other little nuances that are different, but I think that's the basic idea. If I'm right, we see a familiar pattern here. The Jews don't understand the point that Jesus is making, which is kind of understandable because his point is kind of cryptic. Instead, they misunderstand him. They think he's claiming that he himself personally talked to Abraham, and they say in 57, You aren't even 50 years old yet. How is it that you have seen Abraham? Now, most everyone agrees the Jews have misunderstood Jesus at this point. Up to this point, Jesus was not speaking about whether he existed eternally or anything like that. What he's saying is, look, Abraham was counting on me. Just the way I'm saying, you ought to be counting on me. Abraham believed he would find eternal life through the work of the Messiah, and the same is true for you. And we've seen this kind of response before. Jesus says, I can give you the water that leads to eternal life. And the Samaritan woman says, Great, give me that water because I don't want to have to keep coming to this well every day. Or Jesus says, I'm the bread of life, and they say, Great, give us some of that bread like you did yesterday when you multiplied those fish and loaves. And then he says something like, Well, my flesh is the bread, and they say, Okay, that's just weird. We're leaving. So we see this pattern where Jesus says something cryptic, maybe a little provocative, and the people take him too literally, they head off in their own direction and misunderstand him. And that seems to be what is happening here. They say, How can Abraham rejoice to see your day? You're not even 50 years old yet. How could you possibly be old enough to have seen Abraham? Which again, he didn't claim he'd seen Abraham, but that's how they understand what he said. All right, so far so good. Read through a bunch of commentaries, and they mostly line up an agreement until this next verse. Because now we hit the hard question. How does Jesus respond to this misunderstanding? What does he say in response to their objection, hey, you're not old enough to have seen Abraham? He says, 858, Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was, I am. The traditional interpretation of this verse is this. Jesus responds, Well, look, I didn't say that I was as old as Abraham, but since you mention it, in fact, I am older than Abraham. In fact, I'm God. I existed before Abraham existed because I am God in the second person of the Trinity. Now I'm going to argue that he means something different than that, and I'm not alone in this interpretation. A number of scholars that I respect also question the traditional understanding and suggest the option I'm about to explain to you. And this is where we wander off into the interpretive weeds. Ooh, I know you're excited. Let's start with the phrase, I am. When Jesus says, before Abraham was I am, what's he doing? Traditionally, people think he was referring to Exodus 3.14, where God tells Moses that his name is I am. If that's what Jesus is doing, if he's using God's name to identify himself as God, let's figure out what he's doing. How would he be making that claim? So I'm going to give you an analogy to explain what Jesus would be doing in context. Suppose that Peter Parker decides to reveal to his true love Mary Jane that he is in fact Spider-Man. He's waiting for the right moment. One day, while they're walking down the street, they hear a police siren go by, and Peter comments that he should go and help the police. And we readers know he wants to do that because he's Spider Man. But Mary Jane doesn't know that. She misunderstands, so she says, Oh Peter, I didn't know you were such a hero. And Peter responds, Yes, with great power comes great responsibility. Now his answer has a double meaning. Literally, he's saying, I like to help the police help people in trouble. I have this great power and I have a responsibility to help them. But we know that that phrase, with great power comes great responsibility, is Spider Man's motto. So by quoting Spider Man's motto, Peter is trying to tell Mary Jane. That he is, in fact, Spider-Man. People who understand Jesus to mean he's saying, before Abraham was, I am, think that he's doing the same kind of thing. That phrase has the same kind of double meaning. On one level, he's saying, I am. I exist in such a way that I existed even before Abraham was born. But on another level, he's saying, I am God, because he's making an allusion to Exodus, suggesting that he is in fact the great I am who is God. Well, is that what Jesus is doing? To answer, let's look at Exodus. Moses is out tending sheep in the wilderness when God appears to him in a burning bush. God tells Moses he's heard the cries of his people, he intends to free them from slavery in Egypt, and he has chosen Moses to accomplish this task. Moses objects, who am I to do such a thing? And what am I going to tell people when they ask who sent me? So this is Exodus 3, verses 13 through 15. Then Moses said to God, If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, The God of your fathers has sent me to you, and they ask me, What is his name? What shall I say to them? God said to Moses, I am who I am, and he said, Say this to the people of Israel, I am has sent me to you. God also said to Moses, Say to the people of Israel, The Lord, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations. So Moses asks God for his name, and God gives Moses two answers, and we need to make sure we understand both of them. In 314 he says, I am who I am, so tell them I am sent me to you. There is a lot of debate over exactly how to translate this phrase, I am who I am. Whole books and dissertations have been written on how to understand the significance of this name. I am really just scratching the surface here, giving you a brief overview. In Hebrew, the word used is a form of the verb to be, which is the first person singular, I am or I will be. You'll remember the Old Testament was written in Hebrew, the New Testament was written in Greek, Exodus is part of the Old Testament, so we're looking at the Hebrew. The typical way of interpreting this phrase is I will be. In fact, the exact same form of this verb is in Exodus 312, where God says to Moses, I will be with you. Now many people have argued that the best way to understand this phrase is I will be who I will be. They argue when God is the subject of this verb in this form, it very commonly refers to the future. It's a very common expression, and the best way to understand it is I will be who I will be. Tell them I will be has sent me. Now others take this phrase as causative because God is the creator, and they would translate it, I cause to be what I cause to be. That is also very possible. I'm not going to go into all the evidence for these, it's just too much. But both of these are credible, possible interpretations. There's a third interpretation, that this is a statement of existence. And they would translate this: I am he who is, meaning God is the one who exists. God did not need to be created because he has the principle of existence within himself. His existence is not dependent or contingent on anything or anyone else. He alone is completely self-sufficient and self-existent in himself. So we have these three main options. One, I will be who I will be. Two, I cause to be what I cause to be, and three, I am he who is. And you can see there's some overlap and nuance and meaning across those. And if you're wondering, I lean toward the last option, I am he who is. Anyway, that's his first answer. The first answer he gives Moses is something like, I am who I will be, I cause to be what I cause to be, or I am he who is. Then God gives a second answer in 315. God also said to Moses, say this to the people of Israel, the Lord, the God of your fathers. And then he goes on. His second answer is this word translated Lord. And some Bibles place that word in all capital letters. And whenever you see the word Lord in your Bible printed in all capitals, that stands for the Hebrew word Yahweh, the Hebrew name for God. It is sometimes rendered in all capital letters YHWH. We think it was pronounced something like Yahweh. It appears to be a form of the verb to be. It is also translated, he will be, or he is, or he is the one who is. So his first answer is tell them I will be or I am he who is sent you. His second answer is tell them Yahweh sent you, which is my name. And he suggests that his name Yahweh is related to this idea that I am who I am or I am he who is. Now remember, John wrote his gospel in Greek. He says, I am quite unambiguously in Greek. Before Abraham came to be, I am, and he uses a Greek expression that means I am. No question about that one, no debate about that one. It's just, okay, Jesus spoke in Greek. He was probably referring to this Hebrew idea. This is what we think is going on. Now let's throw another monkey wrench into the problem. At the time of Jesus, the Hebrew Old Testament had been translated into Greek, and we call that version the Septuagint. Many Jews of the day use this Greek translation because they no longer spoke ancient Hebrew. It is often helpful to consult the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Old Testament, especially because in this case, this is the version of the Bible that the audience Jesus was speaking to was actually using. So let's ask the question: how does the Greek translation of the Old Testament translate Exodus 3? Literally, the Greek translation of Exodus says, I am the existing one. Tell them the existing one sent you. The first answer is in the present tense, and the Septuagint translates it, I am the existing one as the present tense. But the second answer says, tell them the being one, the one who is. It's a participle, the one existing, the one being sent you. Now that means the Greek translation that the Jews were familiar with at the time Jesus spoke does not support the idea that God was called I Am. They would be familiar with his name as the being one or the one who is. Now we could go into a lot more detail on that, but I think we can conclude Jesus could not expect his audience to catch a reference to Exodus because the Old Testament translation they were familiar with does not have a reference to Exodus. That's not what the Greek translation of the Old Testament said. Now, if all this is really confusing, let me return to my Spider-Man analogy to explain it. We're back in our situation. Peter Parker decides to reveal to Mary Jane that he is Spider-Man, but this time when she says, Oh, Peter, you're such a hero, he says, Yes, I fight for truth, justice, and the American way. Which, if you read the comics, you might recognize that's Superman's motto. Mary Jane is not going to understand that Peter is calling himself Spider-Man because he uses a phrase that is not associated with Spider-Man. He uses a phrase that is associated with Superman. Now, in the same way, Jesus quotes a Bible with a phrase that was not associated with the name of God. So the illusion doesn't hold. So here's the bottom line. It is possible that the original Hebrew should be understood to say, I am, sent me. But that is not at all certain. It is theoretically possible that Jesus is quoting I am from Exodus, but the evidence that he's doing so is not as strong as you may have been led to believe. Many modern conservative commentators admit that connection is not very strong. It's a well, maybe, maybe not, kind of a deal. So where does that leave us? Well, there is another possibility for what Jesus means when he says, before Abraham came to be, I am. Let's look at that. Jesus, in fact, ends a number of sentences with this phrase, I am. Now I'm not talking about the famous ones, I am the bread of life, I'm the light of the world, I am the resurrection and the life. Those statements begin with the phrase, I am. I'm not talking about those. I'm talking about a number of places where he ends a statement with this phrase, I am. And in fact, we have two of them right here in chapter 8. Go back up to 824. I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins. Now your Bible says, unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins, but it's literally the same Greek word. Literally it says, unless you believe that I am, you shall die in your sins. But we translate it unless you believe that I am he, or sometimes it's unless you believe that I am the one, or unless you believe that I am the Messiah or the Christ, because that's what we think he means. The second one is in 828. So Jesus said to them, When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing on my own authority but speak just as the Father taught me. Again, that is the same little word. When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am. But again it's translated, you will know that I am He, I am the one. And this is kind of a verbal habit Jesus has in the Gospel of John. There are a few other places where he ends the phrase with I am. Let's consider the option that he's using that phrase in 858 the same way he did in 828 and 824. Before Abraham came to be, I am he, I am the one, I am the Messiah. Now what would that mean in this context? Jesus had said earlier that Abraham saw the day of Christ, even though that day hadn't happened yet. Now Jesus is saying, I have always been the Messiah. I have always been the one the promises were about. Just to give you another literary example, remember in the book of Revelation, Jesus is described as the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world. That's not talking about the time. Jesus did not die on the cross before the world was created. That is a statement of purpose. It's a way of saying before the foundation of the world, God decided, God planned that Jesus would be the Lamb who was slain. This is not, oops, we got to come up with plan B because plan A failed before the foundation of the world. It was God's intent for the Messiah to die on the cross and redeem his people. What I'm proposing is that Jesus is suggesting the same kind of thing here. I am the Messiah. There has never been any intent for anyone other than me, Jesus of Nazareth, to be the Messiah. From the beginning, I Jesus am the one the promises have been about. When Abraham was promised that his seed would see a blessing, that blessing was always going to come through the Messiah, and that Messiah is me. Abraham didn't encounter the man Jesus face to face, but Jesus was always the one the promises were about. When Abraham was looking forward to the fulfillment of God's promises, he was looking forward to Jesus, even if he had never seen Jesus face to face and didn't know his name. I think that's very likely what Jesus is saying. Before Abraham even came to be, before Abraham was even born, God purposed, God decided, God planned that I, Jesus, would be the one to fulfill the promises. I am he. I have always been the one. So this statement is not necessarily a statement about how old he is or how long he existed or whether or not he's part of the Trinity. It is rather a statement about God's purpose. And it has always been God's purpose that Jesus would be the Messiah and the Messiah would be the Savior of the world. So we have two ways of understanding this passage: the traditional way in which Jesus is making a claim to be the second person of the Trinity, or this other way in which he is making a claim to be the Messiah and the importance of the Messiah. And as Bible students, we have a task. We have to ask which one is better? Which one should I take? So let's think about the traditional interpretation that Jesus meant before Abraham was born, I existed as God, I am the great I am, the second person of the Trinity. Let's suppose that's in fact what Jesus meant to say. Now, as I suggested, the evidence for that is not as strong as people used to claim, but it is still a credible interpretation. So how would that fit into the context? If we were to take that way, I think the flow of thought would be something like this. Jesus tells the Jews that Abraham looked forward to the day of Jesus, the day when Jesus conquers death for his people. The Jews misunderstand and say, but you aren't old enough to have met Abraham. And Jesus says, Well, as a matter of fact, I am older than Abraham. That's not what I meant, but you're right. I am older than Abraham. I am the great, I am God Himself. And we have seen at other times when people misunderstand Jesus, he kind of doubles down rather than explaining. And he could be doing that here. For instance, we saw that in the Bread of Life passage. It could be the same kind of thing here. Now let's talk about the other option. The other option that he is saying, I am he, I am the Messiah. The flow of thought in the passage would then be something like this. Jesus tells the Jews that Abraham looked forward to the day of Jesus, the day when Jesus conquers death for his people. The Jews misunderstand, say, you're not old enough to have seen Abraham face to face. And Jesus responds, even before Abraham was born, it has always been God's intent to save the world through me, Jesus the Messiah. I am the Christ. I have always been the only way that you will ultimately find life. Now, I think that last option has two advantages. First, it takes the phrase I am in a way that Jesus uses it frequently in the Gospel of John, and in fact, the way he uses it right here in the same discussion. Second, his answer is specifically relevant to the issue they've been talking about. It's not a rabbit trail. Abraham rejoiced to see Jesus' day because from the beginning, Jesus has always been the one God intended to save the world through. That's a very tight package. He is answering the very issue that they have raised. Now it is true both interpretations require some thinking, some explanation. The language is simple, but what Jesus has in mind is complex. He's speaking cryptically, as he often does, and both options require that we think carefully about his language and the Old Testament. The deciding question for me is which one makes better sense in the context, and I think context leans to the second. So that's the end of the Bible study lesson. Now let's talk about why this matters. We talked about the interpretive detail about exactly what this passage says and how we try to figure it out. Now let's talk about why this is important, what's at stake in a discussion like this. Why would I even bring this up? At the beginning of every podcast, I say this is my podcast about what the Bible means and how we know. Both of those aspects are critical. It's important that we know what the Bible says and what it means, and it's equally important that we know how we know. You've probably had the experience where someone says the Bible teaches A, and then someone else comes along and says, no, no, no, no. The Bible never teaches A, the Bible teaches B, and then someone else comes along and says, You're both wrong, the Bible teaches C. Well, as a new believer, I found that very upsetting. As a beginner, I couldn't make sense of the Bible at all. It was like Jesus was speaking another language. And I relied on more mature teachers to explain it to me. When those teachers disagreed with each other, it just it was overwhelming. Especially if they quoted the same verse to make different points. It just sent me into panic. How do we sort that kind of disagreement out? Well, the way we sort it out is by working with the same methodology. Bible study methodology is a skill that can be learned and improved. The better you are at it, the easier it becomes to spot a sloppy or wrong interpretation. The Bible is trustworthy and we can understand it. Everyone can learn how to study the Bible. If I can do it, anybody can do it. Basically, all you have to do is read it. Read it the way we read any other work of literature. Read it in context, asking questions like what's the flow of thought, what's the topic? Why would he say this and not that? Paying attention to the language, the background, the culture. Now there are tons of good books out there that will teach you how to study the Bible, and that will teach you how to recognize a good interpretation from a clumsy one or a bad one. I'll put a link to some of my favorites in the lecture notes. Plus, I have lots of information on how to study the Bible on my website, and it's all free. Just keep asking questions, keep reading, and admit what you don't know. There's no reason to pretend you understand what the Bible says if you don't understand it. The bottom line is though you have to take the time to read it. You have to read it and think about it. And if you're like most of us, your first knee-jerk reaction is probably wrong. Assuming you know what a verse means at first glance will often send you in the wrong direction. In one of his classes, Wayne Grudham gives ten rules for interpreting the Bible, and I'll give you the first three, which are the most important. Number one, read it. Number two, read it again. Number three, read it in detail. So, number one, read it as opposed to reading books about the Bible. Read it again. The Bible was written in ordinary language for everyone to understand and read it in detail. Pay attention to the text. I'll put a link to the rest of the rules in the lecture notes if you want to look them up. To close, let me return to the big picture. And talk about what this chapter adds to our understanding of Jesus. Jesus is expanding our picture of what he came to do. He has been saying that eternal life will come to the one who believes that he is the Messiah, the Savior from God. He's told us he came to offer his own life to free us from guilt and condemnation and reconcile us to God. We will escape condemnation and find life through the work that He has come to do as the Messiah, and that's why we should believe in Him. In chapter 8, He's added something new to the picture. In addition to bringing us forgiveness for our sin, He has also come to free us from its bondage. We will become the sort of people who are no longer slaves to sin. And we talked about that a lot in the last podcast. Another thing Jesus highlights in this chapter is the importance of knowledge. Jesus came to bring the light of understanding into the darkness of our ignorance. How are we going to achieve this freedom from sin? Well, at least in part, it's by persevering in being his students, by remaining in his words and learning from him. We can get too caught up in having pristine theology and pinpointing all the right doctrines. And as a church, we have been prone to make that mistake a lot. We get this idea that we can say, look, here's this list of approved doctrines. If you can pass the theology test, then you're okay. But what we've been seeing in John is there is something more fundamental at stake. What's crucial is not how much theology you know, but the state of your soul. Are you teachable? Do you love God or reject Him? Are you willing to believe truth when confronted with it? Are you willing to admit you're a sinner? When your wants clash with God's will, are you going to go his way or your way? And we've seen that the issue is not how much you know, it's how you respond to what you know. We don't need to live our lives in the dark. We know what God is doing in the world. We know where history is headed, we know what's important in this life and what to hang on to. That knowledge gives us perspective today and joy and purpose. And we learn that knowledge through the teaching of Jesus as it's recorded in the Gospels because He is our great teacher. We also learn through the teaching of His appointed representatives, the apostles who wrote the New Testament, and the prophets who wrote the Old Testament. That's why Bible study is so important. Learn to study for yourself andor find some good Bible teachers and listen to everything they teach. Bible study is not everything, but it's not nothing either. It's one of the great gifts God gave us. One more important thing that Jesus talks about in this chapter is perseverance. We need to remain in that teaching. We need to stand firm, persevere, and cling to our faith no matter what. That is a fundamental teaching of the New Testament. Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, the author of the book of Hebrews, they all talk about that one way or another. They emphasize this idea of the testing of our faith. And what is the testing of our faith? Fundamentally, it's encountering the pressures of daily life and deciding I still want the gospel. I still want what Jesus promises. In the end, it's part of me deciding I want to continue to be a disciple of Jesus. And let me point out, there are several ways not to persevere in being a disciple of Jesus. One of them is obvious. You've probably met people who just walk away. You hear them say things like, Oh, I tried that Christian stuff, but it wasn't for me. That's one way to quit. Another way is to distort the teaching of Scripture and turn it into something else. We can pick and choose what parts we like so that it says things that we find easier to swallow. That way we can still claim to follow Jesus, but he's not the Jesus we meet in Scripture. He's a Jesus that we have made in our own image. Now the really good news is genuine Christian faith hangs in there. We go the distance because God gives us his spirit to make us the kind of people who go the distance. As we saw, Jesus promised he would not lose anyone the Father gave him. Everyone who is born of the Spirit ultimately arrives at eternal life in the kingdom of heaven. Everyone who the Father draws to Jesus will stay with Jesus. So we can run this race with confidence, knowing no matter how hard it gets, we're going to cross that finish line. Thank you for listening to the Wednesday in the Word podcast, the podcast that explains not only what a passage means, but also teaches you how to figure it out. The blog version of this podcast is on wednesdayintheword.com slash John 17. You can hear all the previous episodes in this series and find many other series on my website, wednesdayintheword.com. There's no charge, no spam, and no ads. It's all free to help you improve your study skills and understanding of scripture. If you've been blessed by this podcast, please follow it wherever you listen, and if you can, leave a positive rating or review wherever you listen. But most importantly, tell a friend what you learned and where you learned it. Our theme music is provided by Reggie Coates. You can find his music at heartfeltmusic.org. Thank you for joining me today. I'm Krisan Marotta, and I'll see you next week at Wednesday in the Word.